Feat That Lets You Continue Monk Lvls

2012-01-16,03:27 PM (ISO 8601)

Most everyone I've come across agrees that wearing a Monk's Belt gives you Wis to AC, as well as a +1 bonus besides. I've come across one or two people who claim it only gives the +1 bonus.

Can I get a great reference/errata/ruling/something to either confirm or deny that yes it absolutely does confer Wis to AC or no it absolutely does not?

2012-01-16,03:31 PM (ISO 8601)

For a player who's not a Monk. Obviously.

2012-01-16,03:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Brock Samson View Post

Most everyone I've come across agrees that wearing a Monk's Belt gives you Wis to AC, as well as a +1 bonus besides. I've come across one or two people who claim it only gives the +1 bonus.

Can I get a great reference/errata/ruling/something to either confirm or deny that yes it absolutely does confer Wis to AC or no it absolutely does not?

To the Bat-SRD, Robin!
I can confirm that, yes, it gives Wisdom bonus to AC and a +1 bonus to AC as well.

2012-01-16,03:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Monk's belt writeup(emphasis added):

Belt, Monk�s

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character�s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer�s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk�s AC bonus.

Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Monk Class Feature being referred to:

AC Bonus (Ex)

When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Thusly, if a character gets the AC bonus class feature of a 5th level monk, they get wisdom to AC in addition to an untyped +1 bonus to AC.

That's just plain RAW.

2012-01-16,03:36 PM (ISO 8601)

Addendum. You have to be unarmoured to get the wisdom bonus to AC, but, depending on class, that's OK.
A Divine Trickster would probably like it.

2012-01-16,03:36 PM (ISO 8601)

It does give WIS to AC, yes, in 3.5. For some reason, the monk's robe in Pathfinder does not; that's probably where the confusion comes from. In PF, you just get the +1, in 3.5, yes, you do get WIS+1.

2012-01-16,03:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post

Addendum. You have to be unarmoured to get the wisdom bonus to AC, but, depending on class, that's OK.
A Divine Trickster would probably like it.

Especially if clothing or robes of armor + X are allowed and can take on magic armor properties, so that one doesn't have to give those up.

Because, really, wisdom to AC generally isn't quite worth it in comparison to giving up armor properties.

2012-01-16,03:53 PM (ISO 8601)

Well, I only have Craft Wonderous Item. And a +6 to AC (INCLUDING touch and flatfooted AC) is certainly not something to sneeze about.

2012-01-16,04:41 PM (ISO 8601)

It definitely does. The AC by level and Wis to AC are the same ability, called "AC Bonus", which the belt gives you. Open and shut.

2012-01-16,05:01 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Drelua View Post

It does give WIS to AC, yes, in 3.5. For some reason, the monk's robe in Pathfinder does not; that's probably where the confusion comes from. In PF, you just get the +1, in 3.5, yes, you do get WIS+1.

Actually that's no where the confusion comes from. This has been the subject of heated discussions long before PF and right up until the point when it was cleared up in the official FAQ. Some DMs (like me) still houserule it to only give a +1 bonus anyway.

2012-01-16,05:40 PM (ISO 8601)

It's a bigger issue for druids than for clerics, since, first, it's easier to get a belt on a dire bear than it is to get actual armor, and second, druids can pump their Wis insanely high via the Owl's Insight spell.

2012-01-16,05:46 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post

Actually that's no where the confusion comes from. This has been the subject of heated discussions long before PF and right up until the point when it was cleared up in the official FAQ. Some DMs (like me) still houserule it to only give a +1 bonus anyway.

There is no possible situation where I would pay that much money for so very little.

I can get a 50% miss chance for about that (ring of entropic deflection + speed boost).

2012-01-16,05:46 PM (ISO 8601)

RAW: Absolutely, as above posters have said.

RAI: No freaking clue.

2012-01-16,05:49 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post

Especially if clothing or robes of armor + X are allowed and can take on magic armor properties, so that one doesn't have to give those up.

Because, really, wisdom to AC generally isn't quite worth it in comparison to giving up armor properties.

It is handy for core druids though, much easier to take off a belt turn into animal form and have a party member it on you (you could do it with a Hand of the Mage if you can figure out how to easily get one on yourself AND they get Unarmed Strikes up to their BAB as primaries with all natural attacks as secondaries if they want to.

2012-01-16,06:07 PM (ISO 8601)

Yes, it does. But it shouldn't. It's too inexpensive to add +5 to AC. It's supposed to be for MONKS.

Without a doubt, this is the best item for a druid, assuming he can get a wild clasp to add to it. Pretty darn good for a cloistered cleric, too.

2012-01-16,06:09 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post

Yes, it does. But it shouldn't. It's too inexpensive to add +5 to AC. It's supposed to be for MONKS.

It's still less effective than a single stackable miss-chance, which can be gotten for about the same amount.

Quote Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post

Without a doubt, this is the best item for a druid, assuming he can get a wild clasp to add to it. Pretty darn good for a cloistered cleric, too.

Psywars love it too, especially since it stacks nicely with bonuses from Inertial Armor and Force Screen.

2012-01-16,06:29 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post

It's still less effective than a single stackable miss-chance, which can be gotten for about the same amount.

My understanding was that RC clarified that miss chances never stack, only the highest one applies..

2012-01-16,06:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post

My understanding was that RC clarified that miss chances never stack, only the highest one applies..

That entirely depends on what's causing it. I mean, Blink applies a miss chance because you're on an entirely different plane, whereas Displacement is because they're trying to hit an area several feet to the side. The ring of entropic deflection literally pushes arrows and such away from you with chaotic forces (not [force]s). Likewise, Mirror Image is because someone is trying to hit a figment that isn't even in your space (though, granted, this isn't a miss chance, technically).

They would stack, if only because they're from entirely different types of effects. Miss chances due to the same thing (such as concealment) wouldn't stack, but...

Then again, I don't have the RC, so I can't make a RAW assessment on it.

2012-01-16,06:40 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post

That entirely depends on what's causing it. I mean, Blink applies a miss chance because you're on an entirely different plane, whereas Displacement is because they're trying to hit an area several feet to the side. The ring of entropic deflection literally pushes arrows and such away from you with chaotic forces (not [force]s). Likewise, Mirror Image is because someone is trying to hit a figment that isn't even in your space (though, granted, this isn't a miss chance, technically).

They would stack, if only because they're from entirely different types of effects. Miss chances due to the same thing (such as concealment) wouldn't stack, but...

Unfortunately it is multiple miss chances from any source as I recall. I believe the example was someone with a miss chance from concealment and being incorporeal which are clearly different types of effects.

2012-01-16,06:42 PM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post

Unfortunately it is multiple miss chances from any source as I recall. I believe the example was someone with a miss chance from concealment and being incorporeal which are clearly different types of effects.

That's stupid.

It's a good thing I don't own the book so I can't use that 'errata'.

Whoever heard of pay-to-play errata, anyway?

2012-01-16,06:47 PM (ISO 8601)

Yes, it gives wisdom to AC. No, that is not overpowered. You have to not wear armour for it to work, so it only helps if you are not wearing armour. Clerics could get some use out of it, but they use sheilds and armour so its a marginal increase, if any. In fact, the shield as an extra enchantment slot is far more useful to AC.
Druids are the place where it is most problematic. However, +1 beasthide fullplate costs 10k, and it will give a +9 AC when you are in wildshape. Wild plate costs more, but its still in the same neighborhood. A 18 wis druid, with a +2 wisdom from class increases, 4 from owls wisdom, and you have a 6 or 7 AC boost. Compared to the other options available to a druid, it is not that unreasonable. Whether those items are problematic is a matter of its own concern, but its not really any more problematic.
Also, this is taking up the belt slot. There are lots of useful belts they could be wearing instead.

2012-01-17,02:05 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post

My understanding was that RC clarified that miss chances never stack, only the highest one applies..

Rules Compendium made two changes to the rules for figuring miss chances, both on page 32. The first change conflated all miss chances to be the same as concealment, so Mirror Image (miss chance = (n-1)/n, where n is the number of images) won't stack with anything. The second change is called Degrees of Concealment :

However, the DM can rule that certain situations provide more or less than typical concealment, and modify the miss chance accordingly.

This means that miss chance is always whatever any individual DM decides, with official blessing for DM fiat coming from a WotC rulebook.

Personally, as a DM I always uses the second change to make the miss chance be

exactly what it would be if that first change didn't exist: i.e., we're back to the core rules, where miss chances of different types stack.

2012-01-17,02:15 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Rules Compendium made

two

changes to the rules for figuring miss chances, both on page 32. The first change conflated all miss chances to be the same as concealment, so Mirror Image (miss chance = (n-1)/n, where n is the number of images) won't stack with anything. The second change is called Degrees of Concealment : This means that miss chance is always

whatever any individual DM decides

, with official blessing for DM fiat coming from a WotC rulebook.

Personally, as a DM I always uses the second change to make the miss chance be

exactly

what it would be if that first change didn't exist: i.e., we're back to the core rules, where miss chances of different types stack.

Miss chance always was whatever the DM decided anyway as DMs always had official sanction to do whatever. Nothing has changed on that front.

2012-01-17,02:30 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post

That's stupid.

It's a good thing I don't own the book so I can't use that 'errata'.

Whoever heard of pay-to-play errata, anyway?

actually you can download a bunch of erretas from the wotc site for free, or i circumvented the system somehow.

2012-01-17,02:37 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Rules Compendium made

two

changes to the rules for figuring miss chances, both on page 32. The first change conflated all miss chances to be the same as concealment, so Mirror Image (miss chance = (n-1)/n, where n is the number of images) won't stack with anything. The second change is called Degrees of Concealment : This means that miss chance is always

whatever any individual DM decides

, with official blessing for DM fiat coming from a WotC rulebook.

Personally, as a DM I always uses the second change to make the miss chance be

exactly

what it would be if that first change didn't exist: i.e., we're back to the core rules, where miss chances of different types stack.

My rule, although perhaps a bit clunky, was always to just role for each obviously different miss chance. So if you were shooting at a displaced ghost that was behind total cover, you'd roll against concealment, incorporeality, and the displacement.

2012-01-17,03:04 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post

Miss chance always was whatever the DM decided anyway as DMs always had official sanction to do whatever. Nothing has changed on that front.

The change is that, rather than a blanket "Rule 0" permission to change any rule (which will often cause cause player dissent because they can point to the rules which say how things normally work), this is something a DM can point to to show a rule which applies this permission specifically to miss chances.

2012-01-17,03:35 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

The change is that, rather than a blanket "Rule 0" permission to change any rule (which will often cause cause player dissent because they can point to the rules which say how things normally work), this is something a DM can point to to show a rule which applies this permission specifically to miss chances.

I would expect that of all players some players would find things less distressing in this case as opposed to more. But the possible effects in relationship to player psychology is hardly a rules change.

2012-01-17,03:36 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Averis Vol View Post

actually you can download a bunch of erretas from the wotc site for free, or i circumvented the system somehow.

Most errata is free. Some officially published books make changes to the rules not covered in errata - CWar and CArc have text about what happens when you cease qualifying for a PrC, CPsi changes several XPH psi powers (notably Astral Construct) in ways not covered by errata, and Rules Compendium contains a lot of "clarifications" that border on outright errata.

This is what they were talking about as "errata you pay for".

2012-01-17,06:24 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post

There is no possible situation where I would pay that much money for so very little.

True but it was meant to be worn by monks, not abused by druids. Of course the damage increase, stunning fist use, and AC bonus still aren't quite worth that much, so I reduce the price accordingly in my games but that's beside the point.

2012-01-17,07:58 AM (ISO 8601)

Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post

True but it was meant to be worn by monks, not abused by druids.

I'm not really sure you can make a case for this. From SRD:

Belt, Monk�s

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character�s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer�s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk�s AC bonus.

Bolded for emphasis. The last line there makes it pretty clear the designers had planned for the item to be used by non-monks.

Feat That Lets You Continue Monk Lvls

Thread: Monk's Belt- definitely gives Wis to AC right?

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